Re: [Sheflug] Organisation of Sheflug

[Lesley Binks <lesley.binks [at] xxxxxxxxx>]

Chris J wrote:
>
> > From what I can tell, SlugBug has no quarrel with ShefLug as an entity
> in its own right, but more with a particular individual. On the other
> hand, this person has some unknown complaint with SlugBug. On this
> alone I feel it is only right that a number of responses are required
> from the LUG organiser(s).
>
> The LUG is managed (it seems) solely by Richard, therefore I ask from
> him the following:
>
> 1. Are people being censored. If so why?
>
> 2. Who actually moderates this list. If there is only one list 
> administrator, why? As it would make better sense for the list to be
> administered by at least two people - this would then allow for:
>    a) Cover, should one list moderator be unavailable (illness,
>       holiday etc)
>    b) Proper oversight to ensure list powers are not abused.
>
> 3. If there are decisions or other topics of conversation that affect 
> the LUG happening at meetings, I request that these are formally
> minuted and passed on to the rest of the list. Many of us cannot make
> meetings on a regular basis, thus thus would seem to make sense. This
> stems from the comment that "No one is telling me what Slug-bug is and
> at the last meeting I was told by the ShefLUG members to ignore it and
> not to take any notice of it". How many people were at the meeting,
> and was it a representitive sample? In hindsight, just ignoring
> SlugBug seems to be the wrong course given the amount of press this is
> getting on the list.
>
> If there are other people involved with the running on ShefLUG or the 
> running of the list, it would be prudent for them to make themselves 
> known, as a further contact regarding any administration issues.
>
> Linux and GNU is meant to present openness and sharing. All I have
> seen of late is backbiting and snapping. A full response to the above
> points will set my (and possibly others) mind at ease, and hopefully
> Sheffield can move on and put this horrid episode behind.
Well said

I noted one person unsubscribe from this list yesterday and I am not 
surprised.  I have considered that option but haven't yet taken it.

From what I have gathered of the history of this and the SlugBug list
a separation occurred due to a difference of opinion between members of 
this list and the list organiser(s).

This separation seems to have occurred about the time I moved to 
Sheffield or shortly afterwards.

My only other experience of LUGs was the Bristol LUG, where I managed to 
goad many into a regular meet again and where those meetings are still 
going strong.  I have maintained my subscription to that list, as an 
expatriate of that community.

The way that list ran was the way I suspect most lists run; there were 
respected elders, activists and very experienced Linux users within the 
group and everything else from moderately experienced, novices and total 
newbies.

The list adminstrator was just that.  A list administrator.  Full stop.
If anyone top-posted they got asked by a number of incumbents not to 
top-post but the rules on it were not that 'heavy'.  You were allowed to 
start a message in reply to another one with a Hello at the top, for 
example.  Common courtesy was not barred from the list.  Anyone who did 
top post got winged at by members of the list on the list.  The top 
posters either stopped or eventually got ignored.

I am fairly sure there was a team of at least two, with a third who knew 
enough to cope if he had to.  All the administrating team did was accept 
the chore of managing the list.  As for the rest of the activity on the 
list it was down to each and every participant to make the list and the 
LUG 'happen'.

I agree that this LUG has some unique attributes which make it possibly 
a LUGs with a great deal of potential.  It has been good to see that 
there are presentations from what might be regarded as key players in 
the Linux community today.  I hope many have benefitted from that.

However, my exerience of posting to this group hasn't always been met 
with success.  I recall posting in reply to someone else, only to be 
told off by someone else in a private email that I shouldn't top post.
If I recall correctly I think I said 'Hello' at the top of my message.
I also recall posting about something I have little experience of and 
did ask a question about something where I was not sure whether the 
subject matter of the question was actually relevant, but I asked the 
question to find out.  I got what I felt was a total put down of a 
response by one person with a 'huh?' following that particular question.

Fortunately. others did help out but these two events make me very 
cautious about this list, it's inhabitants and the it's organisation.
If anyone wrote a disparaging reply to a newbie or novice then it was 
made clear in other responses that it just wasn't on in the Bristol LUG. 
 That kind of behaviour simply was *not* tolerated.

It made me feel that this list in run for a specific bunch of people who 
have a specific level of experience and anyone else below that is just 
dirt and not worth any time or effort.  I don't think that is what a LUG 
is meant to be about at all.  I was relieved that someone posted from 
SlugBug and thought no more of it than 'oh great, thank god there is a 
different list'.

I could ask the daftest questions in the Bristol LUG and I can ask the 
daftest questions in the SlugBug.  I can be as blonde as I like about it 
and I get answers and assistance where I need it.  I hope I try and 
respond with the same. I think I behave reasonably within the bounds of 
what is accepted list behaviour.  Yes I have my tantrums about stuff 
'not working' (usually because I have misunderstood something) and Suse 
distros etc but what I don't have to do is conform to someone else's 
expectations of list behaviour.

Mostly now, I observe the rules that are here and I lurk on the list. 
If I have a problem with something my default behaviour is I go to 
Slugbug for help.

Because of the two poor events on this list, I am also unconvinced I 
want to socialise with a group of elitists, hence I have not attended 
any meetings.  I can do without that kind of social denigration tyvm.

I'm also good at what I do. I don't need to use an organisation or a 
group of mates to tell me that or confirm it in anyway.

I do think it is very sad that this locality has had to form a break 
away group to get away from a LUG, it's organisation and rules.  It 
could be taken as a condemnation of the original LUG.    A LUG is a LUG. 
 It is not a career vehicle.

Regards

Lesley
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