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Re: [Sheflug] Organisation of Sheflug
On Wednesday 25 August 2004 12:06, James Mears wrote:
> Chris J wrote:
> >All,
> >
> >It seems that there is growing tension between both ShefLUG and
> >SlugBug, with various gambits being thrown open on all sides. However,
> >the latest accusation of censorship however has basically caused me to
> >question the way this list is ran, and the LUG organised.
> >
> >>>From what I can tell, SlugBug has no quarrel with ShefLug as an entity
> >
> >in its own right, but more with a particular individual. On the other
> >hand, this person has some unknown complaint with SlugBug. On this
> >alone I feel it is only right that a number of responses are required
> >from the LUG organiser(s).
> >
> >The LUG is managed (it seems) solely by Richard, therefore I ask from
> >him the following:
> >
> >1. Are people being censored. If so why?
> >
> >2. Who actually moderates this list. If there is only one list
> >administrator, why? As it would make better sense for the list to be
> >administered by at least two people - this would then allow for:
> > a) Cover, should one list moderator be unavailable (illness,
> > holiday etc)
> > b) Proper oversight to ensure list powers are not abused.
> >
> >3. If there are decisions or other topics of conversation that affect
> >the LUG happening at meetings, I request that these are formally
> >minuted and passed on to the rest of the list. Many of us cannot make
> >meetings on a regular basis, thus thus would seem to make sense. This
> >stems from the comment that "No one is telling me what Slug-bug is and
> >at the last meeting I was told by the ShefLUG members to ignore it and
> >not to take any notice of it". How many people were at the meeting,
> >and was it a representitive sample? In hindsight, just ignoring
> >SlugBug seems to be the wrong course given the amount of press this is
> >getting on the list.
> >
> >If there are other people involved with the running on ShefLUG or the
> >running of the list, it would be prudent for them to make themselves
> >known, as a further contact regarding any administration issues.
> >
> >Linux and GNU is meant to present openness and sharing. All I have
> >seen of late is backbiting and snapping. A full response to the above
> >points will set my (and possibly others) mind at ease, and hopefully
> >Sheffield can move on and put this horrid episode behind.
> >
> >Richard -- for the sake of the continued health of the list, you need
> >to be more open about how the LUG is being organised, as at the moment
> >it that any complaints either fall on deaf ears, or illicit a response
> >via private mail, with a result that someone ends up being booted off
> >with no useful explanation. I'm sure everyone on this list will
> >acknowledge the effort put in with the seminars and events that are
> >organised, however these issues need to be resolved before any other
> >people start resigning, and affecting the quality and/or experienece
> >of the list members. I do not delight in having to post this, however
> >the current events have only made me feel rather disillusioned with
> >the list.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Chris...
>
> Chris
>
> I hope I do not upset anybody with this..
>
> I have been reading this topic with interest, I have been in touch with
> Richard and think I should reply to
> some of the questions and pass on some information.
>
> Sheflug was setup by Richard some time in 1999 as a Internet discussion
> list. Over time and with a lot of hard
> work, determination and money Richard has developed the group into what
> it is now.
>
> Richard has personally funded (at great personal cost for somebody in
> his position) the majority of room bookings at
> Sheffield Hallam University etc and through hard work has secured help
> with funding and sponsorship for events and meetings.
> He has been the force behind many of the excellent lectures that have
> been held in Sheffield over the last few years and the
> organisation of the Linux seminars at the Sheffield Wednesday Football
> ground.
>
> Richard has made Sheflug his "life's work" , if I can phrase it like
> that and I can see how it could be difficult for him to
> sometimes accept that people want to have things run in a different way
> or form other Linux groups in Sheffield.
>
> I think the point I am trying to make is that the List and Sheflug group
> is not a "public" entity as such. At the moment the
> Sheflug domain is owned and paid for by an individual (Richard) and not
> a group or a committee.
> Without Richards hard work the meetings just would not happen - in this
> respect Richard feels that he has a certain
> ownership and control over Sheflug. In his eyes Sheflug is "his group"
> and he does not want his "control" to be taken away.
>
> I guess that there are things that have been said that perhaps should
> not have been said, as far as I know there is no
> argument between Sheflug and SlugBug and I think that the recent
> comments should be forgotten.
>
> I have just started (and I literally mean "just") helping Richard with
> Mailing List Admin. Richard has indicated that he is going
> to be busy with a college course and I have offered to help.
>
> To try and answer the questions:
>
> #1. Are people being censored. If so why?
>
> ANSWER: I am not aware of any email posts actually being censored. I don't
> think this is possible anyway. I know that Richard has from time to time
> kicked people off the list (rightly or wrongly) but as owner of the list he
> has seen this as his right to do so.
>
>
> #2. Who actually moderates this list. If there is only one list
> administrator, why? As it would make better sense for the list to be
> administered by at least two people - this would then allow for:
> a) Cover, should one list moderator be unavailable (illness,
> holiday etc)
> b) Proper oversight to ensure list powers are not abused.
>
> ANSWER: In the past only Richard moderated the list. As of this week I will
> be helping out (when Richard phones me with the password later) The reason
> why is because it is Richard that setup the list - Richard has had help in
> the past with list Admin (from me and others) from time to time when he has
> been on holiday but not on an on going basis.
>
> #3. If there are decisions or other topics of conversation that affect
> the LUG happening at meetings, I request that these are formally
> minuted and passed on to the rest of the list. Many of us cannot make
> meetings on a regular basis, thus thus would seem to make sense. This
> stems from the comment that "No one is telling me what Slug-bug is and
> at the last meeting I was told by the ShefLUG members to ignore it and
> not to take any notice of it". How many people were at the meeting,
> and was it a representative sample? In hindsight, just ignoring
> SlugBug seems to be the wrong course given the amount of press this is
> getting on the list.
>
> If there are other people involved with the running on ShefLUG or the
> running of the list, it would be prudent for them to make themselves
> known, as a further contact regarding any administration issues.
>
>
> ANSWER: AS Sheflug does not have a formal committee and meetings are not
> formal in any way there are no minutes to take at meetings. Richard does
> provide some information about meetings on the sheflug website meetings
> page but nobody helps him to maintain this so it is done as and when he
> gets time.
>
>
> I am now Identifying myself as an Admin contact for things relating to
> the mailing list. I am waiting for Admin passwords etc from Richard
> so should be able to help out with Admin requests soon.
>
> I hope that all of the above helps in some way.
>
> Chris, can you post this to the SlugBug list please.
>
> Best Wishes and all the best.
>
> James
>
>
> ----
> james [at] mearsonline.co.uk
Finally common sense rears its beautiful bonce!
Firstly let me STRONGLY agree with you with regards to the effort that
richard puts into running sheflug, he deserves a lot of praise for this, in
combination with Bob Holland he's organised some great meets this year, along
with his tireless efforts in single handedly organising the monthly meetings,
I for one am very grateful.
Secondly , as I recall the slugbug fork was caused by a argument over the
merits of an IRC channel, I was at the meeting that this argument started and
at the time I though richard was the one in the wrong, and told him so, but
thats now in the past.
Thirdly, I was at the last meeting (about 5 or 6 were there), at which
someone brought up slugbug, Richards was the only person to comment on this
and as you might guess it was pretty negative. I did not comment because I
did not want to get into a pointless argument about it at what was otherwise
a very enjoyable meet (I learned everything I ever wanted to know about
contracting and tax law! :) )
As to formally minuting things that affect the running of the LUG at meetings
this is an excellent idea, however as Richard is by far the main driving
force behind meetings this would obviously depend on the cooperation of
Richard.
Finally it seems that the reason that this thread started is because Richard
objected to someone posting a SLUGBUG announcement on the list, IMHO this was
not rational and the "its my ball and I'll take it away if I want to"
argument, though valid is unhelpful.
In summary, please allow slugbug to make the occasional announcement here,
and if anyone has linux important linux news please let them feel free to
post to both lists, and thanks James for offering to help with the list
admin,
best regards,
Dave.
--
Dr. David Holden. (Systems Developer)
Crystallography Journals Online: <http://journals.iucr.org>
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