Re: [Sheflug] Organisation of Sheflug

["Chris J" <cej [at] xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

James Mears scribed thusly:
>
> I hope I do not upset anybody with this..
>

[[ snip some of the history etc ]]

> Richard has personally funded (at great personal cost for somebody in
> his position) the majority of room bookings at
> Sheffield Hallam University etc and through hard work has secured help
> with funding and sponsorship for events and meetings.
> He has been the force behind many of the excellent lectures that have
> been held in Sheffield over the last few years and the
> organisation of the Linux seminars at the Sheffield Wednesday Football
> ground.

As I said - I don't think anyone would belittle the amount of effort
Richard put in behind the scenes; I imagine it can't be easy running a LUG
with the number of events etc that Sheflug is involved with. He derserves
a lot of credit and kudos for this.


> I think the point I am trying to make is that the List and Sheflug group
> is not a "public" entity as such. At the moment the
> Sheflug domain is owned and paid for by an individual (Richard) and not
> a group or a committee.
> Without Richards hard work the meetings just would not happen - in this
> respect Richard feels that he has a certain
> ownership and control over Sheflug. In his eyes Sheflug is "his group"
> and he does not want his "control" to be taken away.

I'm aware it isn't a public entity; people can come and go as they please
by joining and leaving the list; there is no membership list etc. But at
times it has seemed that the administration of the mailing list has seemed
to be, shall we say, less than independent or fair handed, and that's
basically what's caused the problems.


> I guess that there are things that have been said that perhaps should
> not have been said, as far as I know there is no
> argument between Sheflug and SlugBug and I think that the recent
> comments should be forgotten.

Agreed. Things need to start afresh.


> I have just started (and I literally mean "just") helping Richard with
> Mailing List Admin. Richard has indicated that he is going
> to be busy with a college course and I have offered to help.


Excellent :-)


> To try and answer the questions:
>
> #1. Are people being censored. If so why?
>
> ANSWER: I am not aware of any email posts actually being censored. I don't
> think this is possible anyway.


As a list admin elsewhere (no, not Slugbug), it's perfectly possible to
block posts based on sender or subject; Mailman has these options
available(usually used to combat spam more than anything else).


> I know that Richard has from time to time kicked people off the list
> (rightly or wrongly) but as
> owner of the list he has seen this as his right to do so.

See previous comment on this (just up a tad).

>
> #2. Who actually moderates this list. If there is only one list
> administrator, why? As it would make better sense for the list to be
> administered by at least two people - this would then allow for:
>    a) Cover, should one list moderator be unavailable (illness,
>       holiday etc)
>    b) Proper oversight to ensure list powers are not abused.
>
> ANSWER: In the past only Richard moderated the list. As of this week I
> will be helping out (when Richard phones me with the password later)
> The reason why is because it is Richard that setup the list - Richard has
> had help in the past with list Admin (from me and others)
> from time to time when he has been on holiday but not on an on going
> basis.


Fantastic. Cheers!


> #3. If there are decisions or other topics of conversation that affect
> the LUG happening at meetings, I request that these are formally
> minuted and passed on to the rest of the list. Many of us cannot make
> meetings on a regular basis, thus thus would seem to make sense. This
> stems from the comment that "No one is telling me what Slug-bug is and
> at the last meeting I was told by the ShefLUG members to ignore it and
> not to take any notice of it". How many people were at the meeting,
> and was it a representative sample? In hindsight, just ignoring
> SlugBug seems to be the wrong course given the amount of press this is
> getting on the list.
>
> If there are other people involved with the running on ShefLUG or the
> running of the list, it would be prudent for them to make themselves
> known, as a further contact regarding any administration issues.
>
>
> ANSWER: AS Sheflug does not have a formal committee and meetings are not
> formal in
> any way there are no minutes to take at meetings. Richard does provide
> some information
> about meetings on the sheflug website meetings page but nobody helps him
> to maintain
> this so it is done as and when he gets time.


I realise meetings are not formal affairs, and doing things in a formal
manner is just going to get in the way of doing things - but I was just
raising a point (strongly) that it may be wise for things to feed back to
the list, otherwise confusion reigns when things do happen.


> I am now Identifying myself as an Admin contact for things relating to
> the mailing list. I am waiting for Admin passwords etc from Richard
> so should be able to help out with Admin requests soon.
>
> I hope that all of the above helps in some way.
>
> Chris, can you post this to the SlugBug list please.

Will do. Thanks for responding.


I originally started this thread partly through frustration, partly
through annoyance, and mostly with trying to get some solid answers. It
was intended to allow Richard (or whoever) to give some solid feedback
about what goes on behind the scenes, or why things are done as they are,
as many people do not know Richard nor the amount of work that is
involved. I've seen people get kicked off, and the ensuing bad blood that
that has caused as people have never been given clear reasons whats going
on. All I wanted to do was try and get away from the finger pointing and
onto more solid ground.

I don't make any apologies for making the post in the first place as it
seems to have got a few people thinking, but I'd have preferred it if I
hadn't had to write it in the first place.

James -- cheers for the response - it's finally a piece of common sense
and direct answers that many people have been trying to get for some time.
Hopefully we can put this behind and get back to the serious discussions.

Chris...


-- 
\ Chris Johnson                 \
 \ cej [at] nightwolf.org.uk          \
  \ http://cej.nightwolf.org.uk/  ~-----------------------------------+
   \ Redclaw chat - http://redclaw.org.uk - telnet redclaw.org.uk 2000 \____


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