Re: The Nature Of Operating Systems :-) (Was: Re: Linux Beer Hike)

["Alex Hudson" <nospam [at] york.ac.uk>]

> EPOC has privilege levels? I don't know much about it's internals, but I
> would be suprised.

Would you like to outline a method of memory protection that doesn't have
privilege levels?! ;)

> Anyway I said not a "proper" OS. Interpret how you will.

I'm not interested in my interpretation, it was yours I was after! I'm just
interested in what people perceive to be comparable systems, what people
perceive to be OSes, what people perceive not to be OSes.

> > I think you're underestimating the size of EPOC and overestimating the
> > size of Linux!! Remember, EPOC32 comes in at around 6Mb w/applications?
> > I can still fit a distro on a floppy. Compressed, yes, but then, better
> > than a 4:1 compression would be rather something.. I can get a graphical
> > distro on two
> > floppies.
> 1722 * 2 = 3444kb.
> 2:1 compression.
> Exercise for the reader.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? 3.4Mx2=~6/7Mb, which makes
linux roughly the same size as EPOC in this instance??

> > I'm sure IDE will be a big momma, but also, your kernel is compiled for
> > speed, not size. And there is *plenty* of stuff that can come out of it.
>
> You're making assumptions as to how EPOC is compiled then.

I'm certainly not. I'm going from fact I know about the EPOC system - it's
built for size (stated design aim), usually on gcc (depends which platform
it is targeted for), as opposed to Linux tools (FSF: where possible, trade
speed for size, built with gcc in speed optimization configuration).

> Let's put it
> this way, Linux has yet to convince me it scales down to such a low
mem/disk
> machine.

Fair enough.

> I'll believe it when I see it (Any Linux handhelds actually in
production?).

I was told Yopy was shipping in the far east, although perhaps I'm mistaken.
Diamond have a Linux handheld in development, Transmeta have a load of
partners who've shown working prototypes. It's viable, anyway. There's a
webpage somewhere (forget where) that shows you how to build a linux
palmtop, from circuit diagrams upwards, I can probably dig it out if
anyone's interested. I think it was something to do with Hitachi, IIRC.
Also, there's RTLinux and stuff like that specificially designed for
embedded systems, and I can tell you from experience it sucks a whole lot
less than crap like RTEMS.

Cheers,

Alex.

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