Re: [Sheflug] Hypercard

["Stephen J. Turnbull" <nospam [at] sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>]

>>>>> "Chris" == Chris J/#6 <sixie [at] nccnet.co.uk> writes:

    >> >>>>> "Matt" == Matt Fairtlough <fairtlough [at] blueyonder.co.uk>
    >> writes:
    >> 
    Matt> For example, background fields and buttons, and multiple
    Matt> layers.
    >> Background fields and layering are simply not supported in
    >> HTML.  You

    Chris> *bong!*

I don't think so.  If you wanna go to the mats on it, I've got a 1986
or so edition Hypercard manual over there being used as a door stop; I
_think_ there's still readable ink on the pages....

    Chris> Layering is supported in HTML via stylesheets

But this isn't what he's talking about, I'm pretty sure.  that's why I
asked for clarification.  Hypercard layering is not about
presentation.  It's actually a form of widgetry; there's real
functionality in the layers.  (Hypercard presentation is very
restrictive.)

    Chris> Not quite sure what you mean by "background fields" though
    Chris> :) Maybe more forms stuff.

It's _all_ forms stuff in Hypercard.  That was one of the great things
about it; there's basically no such thing as a non-active component.
IIRC.  That's why it was so easy for newbies to use.

    Chris> why overlay text with text :)

Wrong question.  Why overlay a clickable map of the corporate campus
with a textual "table of organization" region where when the pointer
is in a name you can get an LDAP popup on the person with a right
button press, and overlay that with a GUI button that phones the guy
on the intercom next to the display? is a better one.  Try doing that
with HTML (CSS2, huh).

But you could make that make sense in a text browser (by swapping the
clickable image for a box-drawing-character drawn map, admittedly this
would require extra author work).

    Chris> Layers are really only practical for putting text on
    Chris> graphics or graphics on graphics...

No, they're also really practical for making exceptional active
regions inside of default active regions.

If the base widget has three capabilities, one which is to layer a new
base widget over part of itself (drag a rectangle), add presentation
(menu driven), and bind actions to events (also menu driven), you have
a very easy to use interface for bulding up extremely complex
interfaces.  IIRC, that's exactly what HyperCard gave you.  It also
enforced a useful discipline on authors by restricting the form factor
of content to "what fits on a card".  Then allowed arbitrary graphical
interconnections among cards.  Not a good model for some kinds of
documents.  But much better than the typical Web site you see nowadays.

What HTML gives you is a human-debuggable serialized representation of
the _presentation_.  And that's why it sucks for authors, who think in
multiple dimensions.

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