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Re: [Sheflug] cospa project



Alex Hudson wrote:
The Association For Free Software are already interested in this area:

	http://www.affs.org.uk/government/index.html
AFFS would definitely be interested in both helping with your research,
and the results of it. We recently hosted a conference (FLOSSIE), which
was aimed (partially) at increasing the interest in free software on the
desktop within education, which is another public sector.
thanks for the intersting pointer. I had already seen the site of FLOSSIE but not the one of affs.

our uk partner has been telling us that it will be very difficult to find a single public administration willing to use open source, and that is our main problem, now.

One problem that currently hinders the take-up of free software in terms
of Governmental procurement is the natural tendency towards collective
negotiation on a national basis. Government is attempting to realise
discounts via bulk purchase of software, which often means that even
though free software is perfectly adequate in many areas, it could not
be purchased because there is already a local or national licence in
place for a proprietary equivalent. AFFS is currently looking at ways of
exposing that cost - you'll see on the Government pages above, for
example, we link to the record of the public accounts committee when
they looked into the cost of proprietary licences.
I was not aware of that. I agree that it can create more problems to the adoption of open source/free software.

There are also
interesting statements in Hansard, where Paul Boateng MP said something
to the effect of, "it's impossible to say how much proprietary software
is costing us; we don't keep the records and it would be too expensive
to find out".
The question of whether or not free software is price or feature
competitive with proprietary software is not really an interesting
question any more; it is demonstrably feature competitive, and the price
of the software really depends on how you want to calculate it. For
example, you can make proprietary upgrades look quite cheap when you
factor in the cost of retraining when you move away from the package.
But, you can make free software look quite cheap when you take into
account that the current marketplace has no choice, there is no version
upgrade treadmill, and similar issues.
yes, I agree

"Open standards" is quite a weak topic. It's very difficult to define
what constitutes an open standard, for a start. Is published
documentation good enough? No, not really - for any real-world
interchange format, the documentation is not likely to be accurate
enough to implement it. What about patents? Many formats are covered by
patents - MPEG is a good example - so even if you have 100% accurate
documentation, you still cannot implement the standard. Is encryption
used, and who has the keys? If you cannot decrypt a document, you cannot
read it, even if you know the structure inside. Etc., etc., etc. For me,
the only real practical definition of an open standard is "there is some
free software which talks this standard". But, most people will not
recognise the huge numbers of problems that my definition attempts to
address, and assume weaker definitions, such as "you can download a
specification document", or (even worse) "the proprietor will allow you
to licence the format under Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory (RAND)
terms" which is usually complete b******t.

Cheers,

I think that "open standards" are a hot area, where most claim that they are using open standards while in fact there is almost nothing open in their standard.

For internal use, we are defining "open standards", "public standards" and "proprietary standards" as follows:

Public Data Standards
Public Data Standards are publicaly available data standards for ensuring interoperability between different solutions.
Examples of Public Data Standards include RTF and PDF formats for documents.

Open Data Standards
Open Data Standards are open standards for ensuring interoperability between different solutions that need to operate on the same data, written by super partes organisations.
Examples of Open Data Standards include:
XML
HTML
RDF
DocBook
ebXML
Scalable Network Graphics
XSL-FO
Portable Network Graphics
JPEG

Proprietary Data Standards
Proprietary Data Standards are data standards that are not publically available.

From my point of view open data standards play a very important role, thus they allow interoperability between applications. It is not "fair" for administration to use formats like MS ones for external comunications. They force others to adopt the same applications.

Bye,
Andres
____________

Andres Baravalle
Researcher Associate
University of Sheffield - Department of Computer Science

tel: +44 (0)22 21911
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